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	<title>Comments on: Belle de Jour Revealed!</title>
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	<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/</link>
	<description>reading, writing, rebellion</description>
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		<title>By: Net</title>
		<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-11014</link>
		<dc:creator>Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blackheartmagazine.com/?p=2893#comment-11014</guid>
		<description>I guess my point is, that if nobody thought sex work of any stripe (from High-End escorting to subsistence street walkers, from your Monday pin-ups &amp; SG, to the examples of Porn Stars in Ms. Breslin&#039;s feature) was seedy or degrading, then none of it would be. If everybody thought that it was a profession worthy of respect, then it would have the respect that the women involved deserve.

I think They Shoot Porn Stars, Don&#039;t They? is a well written piece, but it says more about Susannah Breslin&#039;s attitude about porn than it does about the industry, to me. The only lady she bothers quoting is one who feels degraded and does it for money. The spin factor here is high, and her disgust is pretty clear in her tone.

 I think that &quot;consent&quot; is key to the &quot;consenting adults&quot; adage -- it&#039;s unfortunate that not everybody who consents to things does so with the emotional maturity to know, or handle what they&#039;re getting into, or do so out of economic desperation rather than genuine interest. It gives those of us who find humiliation, fucking machines, anal and beatings arousing and sexy a bad rap. It makes it seem as though nobody would ever do these things except for money. Which is too bad, because, well. Between enthusiastically consenting adults, there&#039;s a really good time to be had there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my point is, that if nobody thought sex work of any stripe (from High-End escorting to subsistence street walkers, from your Monday pin-ups &amp; SG, to the examples of Porn Stars in Ms. Breslin&#8217;s feature) was seedy or degrading, then none of it would be. If everybody thought that it was a profession worthy of respect, then it would have the respect that the women involved deserve.</p>
<p>I think They Shoot Porn Stars, Don&#8217;t They? is a well written piece, but it says more about Susannah Breslin&#8217;s attitude about porn than it does about the industry, to me. The only lady she bothers quoting is one who feels degraded and does it for money. The spin factor here is high, and her disgust is pretty clear in her tone.</p>
<p> I think that &#8220;consent&#8221; is key to the &#8220;consenting adults&#8221; adage &#8212; it&#8217;s unfortunate that not everybody who consents to things does so with the emotional maturity to know, or handle what they&#8217;re getting into, or do so out of economic desperation rather than genuine interest. It gives those of us who find humiliation, fucking machines, anal and beatings arousing and sexy a bad rap. It makes it seem as though nobody would ever do these things except for money. Which is too bad, because, well. Between enthusiastically consenting adults, there&#8217;s a really good time to be had there.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Roberts</title>
		<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-11008</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blackheartmagazine.com/?p=2893#comment-11008</guid>
		<description>Net: I don&#039;t think that the misogynistic, hooker-raping, racist assholes really need someone to validate them. They&#039;ll be misogynists, rape hookers, and string up blacks whether or not someone is there to tell them not to; they&#039;re bad people. Your argument is now veering towards the &quot;video games make kids bring guns to school and shoot up the place&quot; territory, which I disagree with entirely. Words may be powerful, but people still have to be responsible for their own actions, no?

I think that people have hang-ups for a reason, and not necessarily because they&#039;re &quot;just prudes&quot; or &quot;just whores&quot; or whatever box you want to put them into. People are complex. I&#039;ve explored my own feelings on these subjects; I&#039;ve been doing this for a long time, and these comments are just a brief snapshot. My feelings change over time, too. In my opinion, sex positivity is not about the simple belief that anything between consenting adults is okay, but it&#039;s about knowing your personal boundaries and the boundaries of those you&#039;re intimate with, and refusing to overstep them. Human sexuality is very diverse, but not all aspects of it are positive, and not all desires should be embraced. Check out Susannah Breslin&#039;s excellent &quot;They Shoot Porn Stars, Don&#039;t They?&quot; for some examples: http://theyshootstars.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Net: I don&#8217;t think that the misogynistic, hooker-raping, racist assholes really need someone to validate them. They&#8217;ll be misogynists, rape hookers, and string up blacks whether or not someone is there to tell them not to; they&#8217;re bad people. Your argument is now veering towards the &#8220;video games make kids bring guns to school and shoot up the place&#8221; territory, which I disagree with entirely. Words may be powerful, but people still have to be responsible for their own actions, no?</p>
<p>I think that people have hang-ups for a reason, and not necessarily because they&#8217;re &#8220;just prudes&#8221; or &#8220;just whores&#8221; or whatever box you want to put them into. People are complex. I&#8217;ve explored my own feelings on these subjects; I&#8217;ve been doing this for a long time, and these comments are just a brief snapshot. My feelings change over time, too. In my opinion, sex positivity is not about the simple belief that anything between consenting adults is okay, but it&#8217;s about knowing your personal boundaries and the boundaries of those you&#8217;re intimate with, and refusing to overstep them. Human sexuality is very diverse, but not all aspects of it are positive, and not all desires should be embraced. Check out Susannah Breslin&#8217;s excellent &#8220;They Shoot Porn Stars, Don&#8217;t They?&#8221; for some examples: <a href="http://theyshootstars.com" rel="nofollow">http://theyshootstars.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Net</title>
		<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-11004</link>
		<dc:creator>Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blackheartmagazine.com/?p=2893#comment-11004</guid>
		<description>I agree that harbouring negative feelings about the seediness of sex work is a slippery slope towards denigrating sex workers, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a fallacy.

To me, it&#039;s not unlike the telling of a misogynistic, or racist joke. When a person says &quot;I think sex work is seedy&quot; -- like when someone says &quot;All women are bitches&quot; and &quot;Black people are lazy&quot; (even as a punch-line in a joke) -- one runs the risk of having the one misogynistic, hooker-raping, racist asshole in the room walk away feeling that their thoughts and actions are validated and reinforced. I think that&#039;s dangerous, and to be avoided.

But most importantly, I think it&#039;s important to explore and confront the things that make us feel icky and dirty, and hopefully rise above our hang-ups to make for a more open, understanding, and respectful world. My ideas of what it is to be sex-positive have a lot to do with respecting that whatever happens between consenting adults is a wonderful part of the amazing diversity and beauty that makes up human sexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that harbouring negative feelings about the seediness of sex work is a slippery slope towards denigrating sex workers, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a fallacy.</p>
<p>To me, it&#8217;s not unlike the telling of a misogynistic, or racist joke. When a person says &#8220;I think sex work is seedy&#8221; &#8212; like when someone says &#8220;All women are bitches&#8221; and &#8220;Black people are lazy&#8221; (even as a punch-line in a joke) &#8212; one runs the risk of having the one misogynistic, hooker-raping, racist asshole in the room walk away feeling that their thoughts and actions are validated and reinforced. I think that&#8217;s dangerous, and to be avoided.</p>
<p>But most importantly, I think it&#8217;s important to explore and confront the things that make us feel icky and dirty, and hopefully rise above our hang-ups to make for a more open, understanding, and respectful world. My ideas of what it is to be sex-positive have a lot to do with respecting that whatever happens between consenting adults is a wonderful part of the amazing diversity and beauty that makes up human sexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Roberts</title>
		<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-11003</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blackheartmagazine.com/?p=2893#comment-11003</guid>
		<description>Net: I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything particularly immoral about sex work and don&#039;t intend to put any judgments on sex workers generally, but I personally do find the idea seedy for myself. It&#039;s not something I could seriously consider doing for a living, because it would make ME feel dirty. If others feel differently, more power to them! But I think the argument that feeling prostitution is seedy/awful/wrong necessarily leading to the belief that the women involved deserve to be raped or beaten is a slippery slope fallacy. I definitely do NOT believe that any human beings deserve ill treatment. Everyone has human rights, regardless of what they do for a living, and must equally be protected. No one &quot;deserves&quot; to be raped, beaten, or otherwise abused, period. Morality often masquerades as a reason to ignore the plight of the downtrodden, however, and that is definitely something to question and combat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Net: I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything particularly immoral about sex work and don&#8217;t intend to put any judgments on sex workers generally, but I personally do find the idea seedy for myself. It&#8217;s not something I could seriously consider doing for a living, because it would make ME feel dirty. If others feel differently, more power to them! But I think the argument that feeling prostitution is seedy/awful/wrong necessarily leading to the belief that the women involved deserve to be raped or beaten is a slippery slope fallacy. I definitely do NOT believe that any human beings deserve ill treatment. Everyone has human rights, regardless of what they do for a living, and must equally be protected. No one &#8220;deserves&#8221; to be raped, beaten, or otherwise abused, period. Morality often masquerades as a reason to ignore the plight of the downtrodden, however, and that is definitely something to question and combat.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Net</title>
		<link>http://blackheartmagazine.com/2009/12/03/belle-de-jour-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-11002</link>
		<dc:creator>Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blackheartmagazine.com/?p=2893#comment-11002</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a huge mis-conception out there that Scientist make a lot of money.
As artists, we complain about our funding cuts, but at least we can often do our work on a shoe string. Science doesn&#039;t have that option, because lab equipment is expensive, and unfortunately, their funding cuts are as drastic, devastating, and frequent as ours.

Working on a Ph.D. is a full-to-overtime job. I totally understand the preference to want to make as much money by being charming, intelligent and having some sexy fun, and connecting with people in a tenth of the time it takes to make the same amount plugging code into a cold machine for endless hours on end. Writing copy, even scientific, often pays very little as I&#039;ve heard you complain about lots before. The economics of pricing for escorting isn&#039;t as much about &quot;how much one is worth in bed&quot; as it is about selecting your target demographic, and establishing a sense of safety. You get very different clients who&#039;re working at 60$/hr than you would at 500$ and very generally, those able and willing to pay more, have more at stake, what they&#039;re paying for is your discretion, and what you&#039;re charging for is the security of knowing that your clients have as much, if not more to lose than you do if things do go terribly wrong. When you&#039;re charging that much, you also have the freedom to pick and chose your clients. At that scale, you don&#039;t ever have to sleep with anybody you don&#039;t like.

I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything seedy or immoral in sex work, both in the choice to do it as a profession, or to employ sex-workers to get your needs fulfilled. I believe strongly that continuing to call it &quot;seedy&quot; and look down on it in this way, is the root of the danger inherent in the work. If one feels prostitution is seedy, awful, dirty and wrong, then by extension, the women (and men) involved in it are dirty, stupid whores, and are really asking for, and deserve the rape, beatings, robbery, dismissal, and being left for dead in ditches that they&#039;re often subject to. I passionately refuse to contribute to that kind of dehumanization of any woman, regardless of what she does for a living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a huge mis-conception out there that Scientist make a lot of money.<br />
As artists, we complain about our funding cuts, but at least we can often do our work on a shoe string. Science doesn&#8217;t have that option, because lab equipment is expensive, and unfortunately, their funding cuts are as drastic, devastating, and frequent as ours.</p>
<p>Working on a Ph.D. is a full-to-overtime job. I totally understand the preference to want to make as much money by being charming, intelligent and having some sexy fun, and connecting with people in a tenth of the time it takes to make the same amount plugging code into a cold machine for endless hours on end. Writing copy, even scientific, often pays very little as I&#8217;ve heard you complain about lots before. The economics of pricing for escorting isn&#8217;t as much about &#8220;how much one is worth in bed&#8221; as it is about selecting your target demographic, and establishing a sense of safety. You get very different clients who&#8217;re working at 60$/hr than you would at 500$ and very generally, those able and willing to pay more, have more at stake, what they&#8217;re paying for is your discretion, and what you&#8217;re charging for is the security of knowing that your clients have as much, if not more to lose than you do if things do go terribly wrong. When you&#8217;re charging that much, you also have the freedom to pick and chose your clients. At that scale, you don&#8217;t ever have to sleep with anybody you don&#8217;t like.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything seedy or immoral in sex work, both in the choice to do it as a profession, or to employ sex-workers to get your needs fulfilled. I believe strongly that continuing to call it &#8220;seedy&#8221; and look down on it in this way, is the root of the danger inherent in the work. If one feels prostitution is seedy, awful, dirty and wrong, then by extension, the women (and men) involved in it are dirty, stupid whores, and are really asking for, and deserve the rape, beatings, robbery, dismissal, and being left for dead in ditches that they&#8217;re often subject to. I passionately refuse to contribute to that kind of dehumanization of any woman, regardless of what she does for a living.</p>
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